DECOY DOGS ????

[Jerry Hunsley]

Deano, that is a brindle colored mountain cur. Dixie is her name. Used to be a damn good dog. Pretty old now , but still has heart. She will still hunt and trail, but her hearing is shot. She tends to get out too far now. We have to use shock collar on her. She belongs to my friend Gene. Gene got a female Black mouth cur now. She is only 5 months old. Not going to be but only about 35lbs. but she is faster then Hell. We'll give her some workout this Spring. I'm going up to Kenmare for their annual hunt about the middle of Jan. I got to give a little talk and then just shoot the breeze. Catch you later.

[xdeano]

Jerry,

Females are the way to go. They're aggressive but not overly aggressive. don't let her beat up to bad this spring.
Kenmare is a longggg way from where i'm at now, probably no worse than you driving there though.

i'll talk to you later,
Deano

[Coyotehunter]

Well, I have found that most guys giving opinions about decoy dogs, don't own them, have never trained them and don't really understand what the whole purpose of using the dogs is in the first place. Before I even bought a coyote dog I took instruction from Walt Earl Sr. and L. Craig O'Gorman. I have also hunted with several other trappers that most of you know and others with decades of coyote dog experience that you may not have heard of. What I learned from most of them is that you do not need to train the dog but train yourself about dogs. You need to understand dogs and their natural tendencies. If you are just going out to shoot a coyote then I do not think it is worth the effort of running dogs. I can almost guarantee if you are not hunting in May and June the dogs in the long run will do you more harm then good on stand. If the female is heavy with pups she typicaly will not work the dogs. When the pups get bigger and are camping out like a band of indians the adults can just pick the pups up and head in the opposite direction. My dogs are used year round on coyotes: denning, decoying, tracking sage brush pups, working under the plane, tracking trap line coyotes on drags, locating kick backs and scent post on the trap line. If you have to spend much time training the dog then it maybe that you got the wrong dog. Have you ever heard of a guy training a black lab to fetch? Most of this stuff should come natural for the dog. I run a Airedale and a Dorn/Cur cross with both having a ton of natural ability. Training for me consists mostly of putting the dogs in situations that allow them an oppurtunity to succeed. Once they do I try to reinforce what they learned by putting them in the same situation as soon as possible. They need to want to do what you are expecting them to do. I think it is a good idea to praise a dog but the reward should be the event. Example: praising a dog to fetch a ball is fine but if the dog is worth his salt and going to be a great dog then getting to fetch the ball is the reward. My dog could give a shit if I pat him on the head when he decoys a coyote in and I shoot it. He wants to get the coyote and knows if he gets him close enough to me I am going to I am going to do my best to knock him over. I do not know how he knows that but when the coyote is screaming at me at 20 yards Bear gives me the look that says ok I did my part now shoot him. sometimes this takes 15-20 minutes and other times it can be just a matter of a couple of minutes. He will work that coyote or coyotes in and out until he is right on top of me. Now the point of the dog is to get as much movement and vocalizations from the coyotes so as to draw as many adult coyotes in as possible that may be on that den. Now if you are not on the den at times this does not go well at all. So it is helpfull to be fairly certain of where the den is and the dog will do a good portion of that for you. At times den holes are very obvious and other times one hole looks just like the rest. My dog will tell me if there is a coyote in the hole or not. The first den he was on he dug out the pups and dropped them one at a time at the mouth of the den. Sheep rancher was standing there with a hired hand watching at the time. You do not train that, they either have it or they don't. The first pair of coyotes that he was on (by himself mind you) he worked for 20 minutes out past a 1/2 mile, lost track of him up in the rocks, and slowly brought the coyotes back into me. The first coyote that Dorn cross worked (Pepper) she was 4 months old and got rolled twice before Bear came in and saved her ass. I would not suggest working a young pup on a den but she seen the coyote and tore after it up into the trees. Long story but the point is she just has the desire to work the coyotes. She has hated coyotes ever since and comes unglued when she sees one. A lot of dogs at that age would have gotten bit a couple of times and be scared of coyotes the rest of there lives. You really need that 1 out of 50 that will do it right out of the box. Coyote dogs are expected to do more than any other working dog out there and very few dogs will ever make the grade. There are even less coyote hunters that will make proper use of a dog on stand.

[lyonch]

Good Post Jamie!!! That was very informative. Its good to hear some insight from somtone who uses his dogs everyday

[Jerry Hunsley]

Jamie, that was a good read. It is fun to hear different guys take on the decoy dogs. It is all in what you want your dog to do. The main thing is spending a lot of time with your dog . A lot of dry stands. I remember the first time my dog was on a coyote at a very young age. I took him out , set down and Howled and not long , he got all bristled up and started a low growl. Pretty soon here come a coyote. He never did see the coyote and when I shot him, he took off like a shot, only not out to the coyote. He went right back to the pickup. I went back and got him, and took him up to the coyote. Didn't want nothing to do with it. So now I have another problem, gun shy dog. I spent a lot of time taking him out and shooting my pistol and having him sit by me on a leash. Got that problem corrected. Then eventually after I shot a coyote he picked it up and that was it. I am not a ADC man and don't use my dog to his ability as far as denning, and trailing. He lets me know when there is a coyote around or he can find a wounded one. My dogs reward is a couple good bites after the coyote is down. He will not fight a coyote unless he has to defend himself. That's the way I like it. Some dogs I have seen are too aggressive and they get chewed on and then off to the vet. I would say the main thing I would want with my dog is to not range out too far and come back when I want him too. He is very good about that and I never have had to use a shock collar on him. He just does it automatically. I alert him to a coyote by smooching, or lip squeaking. I use mine all year round and yes you are right , they work better in May and June. If he runs one off , no big deal with me. You are also right about a dog having natural ability, you just have to refine it a little to your style of work. It sounds like " Bear "does just what you want him to do, and that is a rewarding experience. You have an ideal situation for him to work as you are in the business to kill as many coyotes as you can. They love to please their master. The minute I put on my hunting clothes, Wiley is ready to go. I had to laugh the other day, I was driving down the highway and there was a coyote loping along about 200yds. off the road. About the time I spotted the coyote Wiley spotted it and he sure woke up. When I'm driving down a paved road, and then turn onto gravel, he is all eyes and alert. Some dogs never make the grade and I think I lucked out getting a good one right off the bat. Spike , my other dog was way too aggressive and didn't make the grade. He would rather fight and kill them , then bring em in. Had one Hell of a nose on him though. There was know quitting with that one. I can't tell you the times I had to go looking for that one.Wiley is a real treat to have him with me all the time. I don't have to talk to myself .

[Coyotehunter]

Yep, the repetition of useing those dogs day after day is the best training I can provide. Working dogs are looking for work and once they figure out what there job is they have no problem getting after it. How they know that is continuely keeping them on task. Bear is a terrier and getting him to look for coyotes in holes does not take a lot of training. Loves to dig coyotes out of holes. everything else, like locating down coyotes under the plan or wounded coyotes just takes time. I put him on coyotes just about every day and that is tough to do and impracticle for most guys.

[Jerry Hunsley]

Exactly, See you in about a week or so. Looking forward to Classic.

[wyojrt]

CH,

I think you hit the nail right on the head. You've got to have a dog that's meant to do the sort of thing you're looking for it to do and then just give it experience. My little stud dog has taught me a LOT about earthworking because he just knows his job. It's bred into him and you just can't train instinct. You also can't expect a dog to be 100% the first time out or to be a great working dog if he spends the vast majority of his time on the couch. They've got to have a chance to learn the sights, sounds, and smells and then to put it all together in their minds....that takes breeding and experience. If you want to get into ANY working breed, I think your best bet is to find folks that do what it is you are wanting to do....and then see if you can go with them and see the dogs in action....make sure it suits. If the parents have got what it takes, odds are stacked for you that the dog will naturally do what it is meant to with minimum "training" on your part. Training and experience are two totally different things. A good earthworker will do just like Bear does for you....lets you know if something is home or not. They shouldn't lie and should have a solid nose....you can't train that. Something else that folks sometimes have a hard time with is....ALWAYS TRUST THE DOG. I've found many settes that I just KNEW something should be in...looked right, smelled right, etc. Dog said no. Other settes I almost just walked right by and the dog dives right in and gets to work. Breed workers to workers and buy pups from proven workers and you'll stack the deck in your favor for getting that crackerjack dog that works with you as a team.

[Prairie Ghost]

Coyote dogs are not for recreational callers period. It's just too tough to get them on enough coyotes to get them doing what you want. You will constantly be wondering what you did wrong and why don't they do like Jerry's dogs and that is simply because he has put them on a LOT of coyotes.

I agree Dean a good dog in this bussiness is worth its weigh in gold if not more!

[Tbush]

Just re-read this thread agian, You guys & gals that use your dogs all the time are training them with experance in the field by giving them enough time on the game to get good at it. Example I can take and train a 8-10 mo.old so it has the experance and nose and use of the field as a 3 year old all before its a year old If you wanted to train a coyote dog in the off season you sure can it does have to have the drive for what you want to use it for YOU can make it good or bad on how its presented to them..ie: Jerry's gun problem dog, the dog had enough drive to over come the gun or tolerate the gun because of it's drive and he gave it the oppertunity in his training sessions. Agian start it off teaching what the gun fire is with positve assocation, retreiving,chasing a coyote tail around on a rope, blowing a call,to a dead yote gutted and let him get into it and firing the gun off at a distance will prevent you from haveing to back up and fix something later. Yes if a dog fetches naturaly GREAT but you can inhance how he does it, what he does with it, and how profficiant(sp) he does it, and yes you can train them to fetch even if they have no desire to do it, simply put you train him to hold then fetch then make him do it they don't like it or enjoy it but over time it becomes a habit of exceptance and then all is good It all comes from yard training. If a dog has a gifted nose great but you can teach him how to use it better with training or develope a good nose by oppertunity of use... Now I just picked example's from you all to help out? I've only used a dog a couple times to lure a coyote in and ..well it worked!! and those of you who don't know who I am??? training dogs is how I've made my living for over 20 years BUT its gun dogs, sevice dogs and a few cattle dogs every so often (Its all still dogs)

[Coyotehunter]

All great points Terry.

[Daryl]

Terry you don't know anything about dogs do you?

[Prairie Ghost]

great post terry and yes for those of you that don't know terry if he's talking dogs shut up and listen!